Comments on: Thin Liberalism and the Folly of Burning Bridges http://timothyblee.com/2009/10/23/thin-liberalism-and-the-folly-of-burning-bridges/ A Blog by Timothy B. Lee Wed, 08 Feb 2012 02:37:33 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0.1 By: новые сериалы смотреть бесплатно http://timothyblee.com/2009/10/23/thin-liberalism-and-the-folly-of-burning-bridges/comment-page-2/#comment-231678 новые сериалы смотреть бесплатно Sun, 22 Jan 2012 12:29:13 +0000 http://timothyblee.com/?p=1372#comment-231678 Вы абсолютно правы. Вы абсолютно правы.

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]]> By: yatty http://timothyblee.com/2009/10/23/thin-liberalism-and-the-folly-of-burning-bridges/comment-page-2/#comment-124411 yatty Sun, 03 Jul 2011 05:12:18 +0000 http://timothyblee.com/?p=1372#comment-124411 "The free software movement is textbook example of the libertarian thesis: it’s a private, voluntary community producing public goods without a dime of taxpayer support." But this is not the case. The movement developed itself on technology (computers, the "Internet", etc.) built by the state, my friend. And the original "libertarians" were socialists. If you read old anarchist literature, they refer to themselves as "libertarians" (see, for example, The Modern School Movement - pertaining to freely undertaken education). Moglen seems to me an anarchist - a libertarian of the classical sort. “The free software movement is textbook example of the libertarian thesis: it’s a private, voluntary community producing public goods without a dime of taxpayer support.”

But this is not the case. The movement developed itself on technology (computers, the “Internet”, etc.) built by the state, my friend.

And the original “libertarians” were socialists. If you read old anarchist literature, they refer to themselves as “libertarians” (see, for example, The Modern School Movement – pertaining to freely undertaken education). Moglen seems to me an anarchist – a libertarian of the classical sort.

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]]> By: David Piepgrass http://timothyblee.com/2009/10/23/thin-liberalism-and-the-folly-of-burning-bridges/comment-page-2/#comment-8172 David Piepgrass Wed, 28 Oct 2009 16:12:11 +0000 http://timothyblee.com/?p=1372#comment-8172 I would agree that net neutrality legislation is unnecessary if we had a free market for telecommunications. In that case people could choose whether to buy from a service provider that offered net neutrality. But when you've got so many places with telco/cable duopolies for broadband (sometimes even monopolies), net neutrality is needed to discourage them from abusing their powerful position. Now I'd prefer that something be done to create a freer market (opening more of the wireless spectrum to all comers might be a good start), but it's clear that's not going to happen. "Free Culturists" demand the elimination of IP rights? News to me. I read (and loved) the book "Free Culture" and that wasn't anywhere near Lessig's intent. I would agree that net neutrality legislation is unnecessary if we had a free market for telecommunications. In that case people could choose whether to buy from a service provider that offered net neutrality. But when you’ve got so many places with telco/cable duopolies for broadband (sometimes even monopolies), net neutrality is needed to discourage them from abusing their powerful position. Now I’d prefer that something be done to create a freer market (opening more of the wireless spectrum to all comers might be a good start), but it’s clear that’s not going to happen.

“Free Culturists” demand the elimination of IP rights? News to me. I read (and loved) the book “Free Culture” and that wasn’t anywhere near Lessig’s intent.

]]> By: Tom Giovanetti http://timothyblee.com/2009/10/23/thin-liberalism-and-the-folly-of-burning-bridges/comment-page-2/#comment-7820 Tom Giovanetti Mon, 26 Oct 2009 16:37:55 +0000 http://timothyblee.com/?p=1372#comment-7820 Net neutrality proponents demand government force and coercion against the owners of network property. Free Culturists demand the elimination of property rights to creative works. How is this libertarian, regardless of whether or not you capitalize it? It isn't. Net neutrality proponents demand government force and coercion against the owners of network property. Free Culturists demand the elimination of property rights to creative works. How is this libertarian, regardless of whether or not you capitalize it?

It isn’t.

]]> By: hacksoncode http://timothyblee.com/2009/10/23/thin-liberalism-and-the-folly-of-burning-bridges/comment-page-2/#comment-7819 hacksoncode Mon, 26 Oct 2009 16:35:57 +0000 http://timothyblee.com/?p=1372#comment-7819 The one comment I'll make is that, while it's true that network companies should be allowed to do whatever they want with respect to the traffic on their networks (per libertarian ideals), it's *also* true that with freedom comes responsibility. Network providers can't treat different traffic differently based on content, and still claim that they bear no responsibility for that content. If they want a free ride on the liability for the data on their networks (effectively common carrier status), they need to not selectively pick certain content for special treatment. Personally, I think that it would be a good trade for them to make: network neutrality in return for no liability for the data crossing their networks. But it should be their free choice to make. The one comment I’ll make is that, while it’s true that network companies should be allowed to do whatever they want with respect to the traffic on their networks (per libertarian ideals), it’s *also* true that with freedom comes responsibility.

Network providers can’t treat different traffic differently based on content, and still claim that they bear no responsibility for that content.

If they want a free ride on the liability for the data on their networks (effectively common carrier status), they need to not selectively pick certain content for special treatment.

Personally, I think that it would be a good trade for them to make: network neutrality in return for no liability for the data crossing their networks.

But it should be their free choice to make.

]]> By: EL Jefe http://timothyblee.com/2009/10/23/thin-liberalism-and-the-folly-of-burning-bridges/comment-page-1/#comment-7491 EL Jefe Sun, 25 Oct 2009 01:40:41 +0000 http://timothyblee.com/?p=1372#comment-7491 Lopez, Patrick didn't say to abandon all order. Liberty is not freedom from those social constructs (traffic signals) that are designed to allow participants (tax payers) use resources (roads) that they pay for in a safe manner. Government regulations and requirements that make it difficult if not impossible for true competitors to emerge For example, try reading some of the Federal Acquisition Regulations and the compliance that surrounds Cost Accounting Standards and other arcane chicanery that large businesses like Boeing, Northrop and others use to shut out competitors. When the State mandates by force of law with penalties including the loss of property and incarceration, certain prescribed actions that prohibit the free offer of goods and services, it is acting in the role of tyranny, arbitrarily setting up hurdles that protect incumbents and create monopolies. Try submitting a government proposal in anything other than MS Office format or PDF. Lopez, Patrick didn’t say to abandon all order. Liberty is not freedom from those social constructs (traffic signals) that are designed to allow participants (tax payers) use resources (roads) that they pay for in a safe manner. Government regulations and requirements that make it difficult if not impossible for true competitors to emerge For example, try reading some of the Federal Acquisition Regulations and the compliance that surrounds Cost Accounting Standards and other arcane chicanery that large businesses like Boeing, Northrop and others use to shut out competitors. When the State mandates by force of law with penalties including the loss of property and incarceration, certain prescribed actions that prohibit the free offer of goods and services, it is acting in the role of tyranny, arbitrarily setting up hurdles that protect incumbents and create monopolies. Try submitting a government proposal in anything other than MS Office format or PDF.

]]> By: Howard Lopez http://timothyblee.com/2009/10/23/thin-liberalism-and-the-folly-of-burning-bridges/comment-page-1/#comment-7480 Howard Lopez Sun, 25 Oct 2009 00:22:02 +0000 http://timothyblee.com/?p=1372#comment-7480 Patrick sez: "I’ll even take it a step further… the best approach to solve our economic woes is to repeal *all* regulation in *all* industries." So people would then be free to drive on whatever side of the road they wanted? Come on now. For that, move to Somalia. We in the 'civilized' world understand that some rule sets have to be in place in order for society to function. Patrick sez: “I’ll even take it a step further… the best approach to solve our economic woes is to repeal *all* regulation in *all* industries.”

So people would then be free to drive on whatever side of the road they wanted? Come on now. For that, move to Somalia. We in the ‘civilized’ world understand that some rule sets have to be in place in order for society to function.

]]> By: Patrick http://timothyblee.com/2009/10/23/thin-liberalism-and-the-folly-of-burning-bridges/comment-page-1/#comment-7431 Patrick Sat, 24 Oct 2009 20:04:26 +0000 http://timothyblee.com/?p=1372#comment-7431 "As far as I’m concerned, I retain an interest in those rights taken from me..." Before I respond to this in detail, could you please clarify what rights exactly you're referring to. “As far as I’m concerned, I retain an interest in those rights taken from me…”

Before I respond to this in detail, could you please clarify what rights exactly you’re referring to.

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