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	<title>Comments on: Immigration and Ignorant Voters</title>
	<atom:link href="http://timothyblee.com/2010/06/09/immigration-and-the-problem-of-voter-ignorance/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://timothyblee.com/2010/06/09/immigration-and-the-problem-of-voter-ignorance/</link>
	<description>A Blog by Timothy B. Lee</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Wed, 08 Feb 2012 02:37:33 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: MarkCh</title>
		<link>http://timothyblee.com/2010/06/09/immigration-and-the-problem-of-voter-ignorance/comment-page-1/#comment-13691</link>
		<dc:creator>MarkCh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 Jun 2010 18:02:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timothyblee.com/?p=2995#comment-13691</guid>
		<description>It clears it up, but then that&#039;s what the whole discussion is about. Tim&#039;s answer to Rob begs the question I raised, which is probably the real source of the disagreement between them. Your point is that any general restriction on immigration is essentially immoral. You can make a reasonable argument for this position, but I doubt that many people will take it seriously.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It clears it up, but then that&#8217;s what the whole discussion is about. Tim&#8217;s answer to Rob begs the question I raised, which is probably the real source of the disagreement between them. Your point is that any general restriction on immigration is essentially immoral. You can make a reasonable argument for this position, but I doubt that many people will take it seriously.</p>
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		<title>By: Nelson</title>
		<link>http://timothyblee.com/2010/06/09/immigration-and-the-problem-of-voter-ignorance/comment-page-1/#comment-13679</link>
		<dc:creator>Nelson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Jun 2010 20:43:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timothyblee.com/?p=2995#comment-13679</guid>
		<description>To put it more plainly, there is not inalienable right to deny others the rights you have regardless of what the law says. You also have the legal right to make the law say whatever you want. Hope this clears it up.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To put it more plainly, there is not inalienable right to deny others the rights you have regardless of what the law says. You also have the legal right to make the law say whatever you want. Hope this clears it up.</p>
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		<title>By: Nelson</title>
		<link>http://timothyblee.com/2010/06/09/immigration-and-the-problem-of-voter-ignorance/comment-page-1/#comment-13678</link>
		<dc:creator>Nelson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Jun 2010 19:58:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timothyblee.com/?p=2995#comment-13678</guid>
		<description>MackCh,

The Constitution allowed the &quot;right&quot; to hold slaves when it was written. That didn&#039;t make slavery good. Nor did breaking various laws by aiding runaway slaves make those lawbreakers bad. Basically, insofar as there is a &quot;right&quot; to be a bigot, being a bigot is wrong and the laws should change to reflect that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>MackCh,</p>
<p>The Constitution allowed the &#8220;right&#8221; to hold slaves when it was written. That didn&#8217;t make slavery good. Nor did breaking various laws by aiding runaway slaves make those lawbreakers bad. Basically, insofar as there is a &#8220;right&#8221; to be a bigot, being a bigot is wrong and the laws should change to reflect that.</p>
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		<title>By: MarkCh</title>
		<link>http://timothyblee.com/2010/06/09/immigration-and-the-problem-of-voter-ignorance/comment-page-1/#comment-13664</link>
		<dc:creator>MarkCh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Jun 2010 16:32:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timothyblee.com/?p=2995#comment-13664</guid>
		<description>Do the people who are already in a country have a right, expressed through the government, to say who and how many should be allowed to immigrate? Or are they only allowed to restrict immigration if they can show harm in each individual case?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Do the people who are already in a country have a right, expressed through the government, to say who and how many should be allowed to immigrate? Or are they only allowed to restrict immigration if they can show harm in each individual case?</p>
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		<title>By: Timothy B Lee</title>
		<link>http://timothyblee.com/2010/06/09/immigration-and-the-problem-of-voter-ignorance/comment-page-1/#comment-13662</link>
		<dc:creator>Timothy B Lee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Jun 2010 15:25:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timothyblee.com/?p=2995#comment-13662</guid>
		<description>Rob, I have to say I find this baffling. Do you think these people want to be illegal immigrants? Most of them are desperate for a green card; they just don&#039;t have the resources or the connections to get one. And for many of them &quot;waiting in line&quot; could literally mean waiting for the rest of their lives.

And I have to ask you: have you ever purchased something from Amazon? If so, did you pay your use tax? If not, you, too are a lawbreaker. And this despite the fact that it&#039;s much, much easier for you to comply with the law than it is for the average illegal immigrant.

Also, how is your immigrant friend harmed if another immigrant comes here without filling out the appropriate paperwork? And if the paperwork is so onerous that millions of people are unable to complete it, isn&#039;t the solution to fix the rules so that poor, uneducated people have a realistic shot at complying with them?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Rob, I have to say I find this baffling. Do you think these people want to be illegal immigrants? Most of them are desperate for a green card; they just don&#8217;t have the resources or the connections to get one. And for many of them &#8220;waiting in line&#8221; could literally mean waiting for the rest of their lives.</p>
<p>And I have to ask you: have you ever purchased something from Amazon? If so, did you pay your use tax? If not, you, too are a lawbreaker. And this despite the fact that it&#8217;s much, much easier for you to comply with the law than it is for the average illegal immigrant.</p>
<p>Also, how is your immigrant friend harmed if another immigrant comes here without filling out the appropriate paperwork? And if the paperwork is so onerous that millions of people are unable to complete it, isn&#8217;t the solution to fix the rules so that poor, uneducated people have a realistic shot at complying with them?</p>
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		<title>By: Rob</title>
		<link>http://timothyblee.com/2010/06/09/immigration-and-the-problem-of-voter-ignorance/comment-page-1/#comment-13661</link>
		<dc:creator>Rob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Jun 2010 15:12:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timothyblee.com/?p=2995#comment-13661</guid>
		<description>My problem with illegal immigration is not that illegal immigrants are a major source of crime (they&#039;re not, in the big picture) or that they take jobs away from Americans (if you can&#039;t compete with largely uneducated immigrants who don&#039;t speak English well, you have bigger problems than immigration).

My problem is that it&#039;s &lt;i&gt;illegal&lt;/i&gt;.  No first world country tolerates illegal immigration the way we do (a half million deportations a year is a sign of the magnitude of the problem, not a measure of success against millions of illegals).

I have two friends who are legal immigrants and trying to abide by the rules and get citizenship.  Their thanks for this is thousands of dollars in legal fees and endless hassle.  Why should we let people flaunt the rules and just skate in as they please?

The US is a country made of immigrants and only a fool would oppose immigration in principle, but it has to be an orderly, &lt;i&gt;legal&lt;/i&gt; operation.  I wouldn&#039;t at all mind a process where illegal immigrants can become legal, as long as they aren&#039;t allowed to cut in line ahead of people already trying to pursue a legal path.  Trying to deport them all is a folly of equal magnitude to turning an official blind eye to the problem.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My problem with illegal immigration is not that illegal immigrants are a major source of crime (they&#8217;re not, in the big picture) or that they take jobs away from Americans (if you can&#8217;t compete with largely uneducated immigrants who don&#8217;t speak English well, you have bigger problems than immigration).</p>
<p>My problem is that it&#8217;s <i>illegal</i>.  No first world country tolerates illegal immigration the way we do (a half million deportations a year is a sign of the magnitude of the problem, not a measure of success against millions of illegals).</p>
<p>I have two friends who are legal immigrants and trying to abide by the rules and get citizenship.  Their thanks for this is thousands of dollars in legal fees and endless hassle.  Why should we let people flaunt the rules and just skate in as they please?</p>
<p>The US is a country made of immigrants and only a fool would oppose immigration in principle, but it has to be an orderly, <i>legal</i> operation.  I wouldn&#8217;t at all mind a process where illegal immigrants can become legal, as long as they aren&#8217;t allowed to cut in line ahead of people already trying to pursue a legal path.  Trying to deport them all is a folly of equal magnitude to turning an official blind eye to the problem.</p>
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		<title>By: Nelson</title>
		<link>http://timothyblee.com/2010/06/09/immigration-and-the-problem-of-voter-ignorance/comment-page-1/#comment-13654</link>
		<dc:creator>Nelson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Jun 2010 02:33:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timothyblee.com/?p=2995#comment-13654</guid>
		<description>The ignorance is willful. Try posting a defense of open immigration on a conservative website and watch what happens.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The ignorance is willful. Try posting a defense of open immigration on a conservative website and watch what happens.</p>
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		<title>By: Erich</title>
		<link>http://timothyblee.com/2010/06/09/immigration-and-the-problem-of-voter-ignorance/comment-page-1/#comment-13635</link>
		<dc:creator>Erich</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Jun 2010 13:09:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timothyblee.com/?p=2995#comment-13635</guid>
		<description>Right on Tim! Thanks for this.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Right on Tim! Thanks for this.</p>
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