<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments for Bottom-up</title>
	<atom:link href="http://timothyblee.com/comments/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://timothyblee.com</link>
	<description>A Blog by Timothy B. Lee</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Mon, 06 Sep 2010 04:54:54 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=abc</generator>
	<item>
		<title>Comment on Taxes and Inequality in Greater Greater Washington by Tom</title>
		<link>http://timothyblee.com/2010/09/03/taxes-and-inequality-in-greater-greater-washington/comment-page-1/#comment-25306</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Sep 2010 04:54:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timothyblee.com/?p=4051#comment-25306</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ll try to avoid addressing the practical case, since I think you and I have fundamental differences of opinion regarding that question that are unlikely to be resolved in a blog comment thread.  But I do want to address the question of incentives: I think there&#039;s a real case to be made regarding the tax (dis)incentives surrounding new business ventures.  I don&#039;t personally think it holds up empirically, but it&#039;s certainly defensible.

But the idea that it&#039;s wise to accumulate wealth among a very few because this allows those individuals to pursue their idiosyncratic philanthropic impulses -- I think you&#039;d probably admit that there&#039;s a lot more work to be done before this is a complete argument.  This post and the linked post provide a number of anecdotal appeals, but of course that&#039;s not really sufficient to make the case that this is a socially optimal system for using that wealth (and even among the anecdotes, I think it&#039;s tough to look at the John Gilmore example and conclude that the money is being efficiently spent (except as personal consumption/entertainment) by virtually any measure of utility).

And, if I can respond to those pointing out the systemic problems associated with letting governments spend &quot;surplus&quot; wealth (e.g. governments tend to find excuses to kill non-citizens): there are problems with the private philanthropic model, too, even beyond individuals&#039; sometimes-flawed ideas about how to spend their money for others&#039; benefit.  For instance, I listened to a quiz show this morning on NPR thanks in part to the generosity of an endowment dedicated to the eradication of nuclear weapons!  How this underwriting expense served that goal, I have no idea.  But I suspect there&#039;s a sizable endowment somewhere helping provide me with my Sunday morning entertainment, all thanks to the legacy of some dead guy who may or may not have cared a whit about public radio.

Admittedly, wasting money on NPR is substantially less problematic than wasting it on killing foreigners and destroying their property.  Still, I think it&#039;s hard to claim that these funds are applied thoughtfully by private philanthropy.  Any genuinely large endowment will tend to quickly fall into the hands of managers who face a very different set of incentives than did the person who earned the money.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ll try to avoid addressing the practical case, since I think you and I have fundamental differences of opinion regarding that question that are unlikely to be resolved in a blog comment thread.  But I do want to address the question of incentives: I think there&#8217;s a real case to be made regarding the tax (dis)incentives surrounding new business ventures.  I don&#8217;t personally think it holds up empirically, but it&#8217;s certainly defensible.</p>
<p>But the idea that it&#8217;s wise to accumulate wealth among a very few because this allows those individuals to pursue their idiosyncratic philanthropic impulses &#8212; I think you&#8217;d probably admit that there&#8217;s a lot more work to be done before this is a complete argument.  This post and the linked post provide a number of anecdotal appeals, but of course that&#8217;s not really sufficient to make the case that this is a socially optimal system for using that wealth (and even among the anecdotes, I think it&#8217;s tough to look at the John Gilmore example and conclude that the money is being efficiently spent (except as personal consumption/entertainment) by virtually any measure of utility).</p>
<p>And, if I can respond to those pointing out the systemic problems associated with letting governments spend &#8220;surplus&#8221; wealth (e.g. governments tend to find excuses to kill non-citizens): there are problems with the private philanthropic model, too, even beyond individuals&#8217; sometimes-flawed ideas about how to spend their money for others&#8217; benefit.  For instance, I listened to a quiz show this morning on NPR thanks in part to the generosity of an endowment dedicated to the eradication of nuclear weapons!  How this underwriting expense served that goal, I have no idea.  But I suspect there&#8217;s a sizable endowment somewhere helping provide me with my Sunday morning entertainment, all thanks to the legacy of some dead guy who may or may not have cared a whit about public radio.</p>
<p>Admittedly, wasting money on NPR is substantially less problematic than wasting it on killing foreigners and destroying their property.  Still, I think it&#8217;s hard to claim that these funds are applied thoughtfully by private philanthropy.  Any genuinely large endowment will tend to quickly fall into the hands of managers who face a very different set of incentives than did the person who earned the money.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>Comment on Nathan Myhrvold&#8217;s Evil Genius by vuttimmincift</title>
		<link>http://timothyblee.com/2009/09/08/nathan-myhrvolds-evil-genius/comment-page-2/#comment-25251</link>
		<dc:creator>vuttimmincift</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 05 Sep 2010 13:22:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timothyblee.com/?p=781#comment-25251</guid>
		<description>&lt;a href=&quot;http://burevesnik.ru/&quot; / rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;mmorpg&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://burevesnik.ru/" / rel="nofollow">mmorpg</a></p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>Comment on Liberalism in Europe by Kaleberg</title>
		<link>http://timothyblee.com/2010/08/30/liberalism-in-europe/comment-page-1/#comment-25141</link>
		<dc:creator>Kaleberg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Sep 2010 03:16:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timothyblee.com/?p=4043#comment-25141</guid>
		<description>The Democrats in the U.S. are socially liberal and fiscally conservative. At least that&#039;s what the data show. Republicans are socially conservative and spend borrowed money like drunken sailors.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Democrats in the U.S. are socially liberal and fiscally conservative. At least that&#8217;s what the data show. Republicans are socially conservative and spend borrowed money like drunken sailors.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>Comment on Taxes and Inequality in Greater Greater Washington by Kaleberg</title>
		<link>http://timothyblee.com/2010/09/03/taxes-and-inequality-in-greater-greater-washington/comment-page-1/#comment-25140</link>
		<dc:creator>Kaleberg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Sep 2010 03:13:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timothyblee.com/?p=4051#comment-25140</guid>
		<description>&quot;One of the perverse things about the confiscatory tax levels that prevailed in the mid-20th century is that it created systematic disincentive to do high-risk, high-reward entrepreneurship.&quot; - Yes, but it did get us a higher economic growth rate, big advances in technology and a rising standard of living.  I guess that&#039;s the trade off.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;One of the perverse things about the confiscatory tax levels that prevailed in the mid-20th century is that it created systematic disincentive to do high-risk, high-reward entrepreneurship.&#8221; &#8211; Yes, but it did get us a higher economic growth rate, big advances in technology and a rising standard of living.  I guess that&#8217;s the trade off.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>Comment on Taxes and Inequality in Greater Greater Washington by Jess</title>
		<link>http://timothyblee.com/2010/09/03/taxes-and-inequality-in-greater-greater-washington/comment-page-1/#comment-25133</link>
		<dc:creator>Jess</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Sep 2010 01:02:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timothyblee.com/?p=4051#comment-25133</guid>
		<description>The centralization I&#039;m talking about is the astroturfing/marketing/media-buying/push-polling/etc. that generates the support in the first place.  (I don&#039;t dispute that some widely-held political preferences are the natural result of widely-held beliefs and interests, but there are also such political preferences that require regular care and feeding from large vested interests.)  Does this nullify the bottom-upness of the political preference?  Or maybe bottom-upness as a category applies to programs but not the politics behind them?  (Sorry, just thinking out loud here.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The centralization I&#8217;m talking about is the astroturfing/marketing/media-buying/push-polling/etc. that generates the support in the first place.  (I don&#8217;t dispute that some widely-held political preferences are the natural result of widely-held beliefs and interests, but there are also such political preferences that require regular care and feeding from large vested interests.)  Does this nullify the bottom-upness of the political preference?  Or maybe bottom-upness as a category applies to programs but not the politics behind them?  (Sorry, just thinking out loud here.)</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>Comment on Taxes and Inequality in Greater Greater Washington by Brian Moore</title>
		<link>http://timothyblee.com/2010/09/03/taxes-and-inequality-in-greater-greater-washington/comment-page-1/#comment-25122</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian Moore</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Sep 2010 19:11:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timothyblee.com/?p=4051#comment-25122</guid>
		<description>&quot;I’m not sure, but there may be an interesting top-down/bottom-up dynamic at work here. If a large enough group of brainwashed voters support an awful spending program, does it matter that their “consent” is “manufactured”? This is still bottom-up, right?&quot;

Well, I think maybe there are 2 contexts there -- the support for the policy could be decentralized, in that genuinely many people might support it, but the actual implementation of it could be centralized or decentralized, though obviously things run by the federal government tend towards the former. :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;I’m not sure, but there may be an interesting top-down/bottom-up dynamic at work here. If a large enough group of brainwashed voters support an awful spending program, does it matter that their “consent” is “manufactured”? This is still bottom-up, right?&#8221;</p>
<p>Well, I think maybe there are 2 contexts there &#8212; the support for the policy could be decentralized, in that genuinely many people might support it, but the actual implementation of it could be centralized or decentralized, though obviously things run by the federal government tend towards the former. <img src='http://timothyblee.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>Comment on Taxes and Inequality in Greater Greater Washington by Jess</title>
		<link>http://timothyblee.com/2010/09/03/taxes-and-inequality-in-greater-greater-washington/comment-page-1/#comment-25115</link>
		<dc:creator>Jess</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Sep 2010 17:01:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timothyblee.com/?p=4051#comment-25115</guid>
		<description>Hear, hear, Brian!  We&#039;d all be better off without the spending you describe.  Even worse, now that we&#039;re spending all that money on those awful things, we will be forever plagued by the odious lobbying, marketing, and media interference of the people who produce all those awful things for the government to buy.  It&#039;s little wonder why Americans today are more afraid than ever of crime, immigrants, drug use, and terrorism, even though all the rates of all of those are at historic lows.

Not that I really want anyone to follow this advice, Ferny, but fear-mongering is the obvious way to ensure spending on your favored programs.  It doesn&#039;t matter if most Americans will never be affected by the issues that are important to you, if you can somehow make them afraid that they will be.  Follow the example of those who have succeeded at fleecing the American taxpayer!

I&#039;m not sure, but there may be an interesting top-down/bottom-up dynamic at work here.  If a large enough group of brainwashed voters support an awful spending program, does it matter that their &quot;consent&quot; is &quot;manufactured&quot;?  This is still bottom-up, right?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hear, hear, Brian!  We&#8217;d all be better off without the spending you describe.  Even worse, now that we&#8217;re spending all that money on those awful things, we will be forever plagued by the odious lobbying, marketing, and media interference of the people who produce all those awful things for the government to buy.  It&#8217;s little wonder why Americans today are more afraid than ever of crime, immigrants, drug use, and terrorism, even though all the rates of all of those are at historic lows.</p>
<p>Not that I really want anyone to follow this advice, Ferny, but fear-mongering is the obvious way to ensure spending on your favored programs.  It doesn&#8217;t matter if most Americans will never be affected by the issues that are important to you, if you can somehow make them afraid that they will be.  Follow the example of those who have succeeded at fleecing the American taxpayer!</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not sure, but there may be an interesting top-down/bottom-up dynamic at work here.  If a large enough group of brainwashed voters support an awful spending program, does it matter that their &#8220;consent&#8221; is &#8220;manufactured&#8221;?  This is still bottom-up, right?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>Comment on Taxes and Inequality in Greater Greater Washington by Brian Moore</title>
		<link>http://timothyblee.com/2010/09/03/taxes-and-inequality-in-greater-greater-washington/comment-page-1/#comment-25114</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian Moore</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Sep 2010 16:55:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timothyblee.com/?p=4051#comment-25114</guid>
		<description>&#039;I’m not insensitive to the arguments centering around “inequality”, but most of them seem to be short-sighted, overly simplistic “nobody needs that much money” sorts of things. It’s not a zero-sum game; we all benefit when more people are able to vigorously participate in the economy.&quot;

Agreed.  It would be one thing if A) the poor were getting worse off on average or B) the rich were creating inequality by stealing from the poor, but neither of these things seem to be true in our case.  (Yes, I know they are true in some specific circumstances, but there is not the general perception that it is the case)  Will Wilkinson has a bunch of posts about how injustice seems to be a lot more important to people than inequality.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8216;I’m not insensitive to the arguments centering around “inequality”, but most of them seem to be short-sighted, overly simplistic “nobody needs that much money” sorts of things. It’s not a zero-sum game; we all benefit when more people are able to vigorously participate in the economy.&#8221;</p>
<p>Agreed.  It would be one thing if A) the poor were getting worse off on average or B) the rich were creating inequality by stealing from the poor, but neither of these things seem to be true in our case.  (Yes, I know they are true in some specific circumstances, but there is not the general perception that it is the case)  Will Wilkinson has a bunch of posts about how injustice seems to be a lot more important to people than inequality.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>Comment on Conservatives and &#8220;Limited Government&#8221; by Christopher Carr</title>
		<link>http://timothyblee.com/2010/08/26/conservatives-and-limited-government/comment-page-1/#comment-25111</link>
		<dc:creator>Christopher Carr</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Sep 2010 16:04:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timothyblee.com/?p=4006#comment-25111</guid>
		<description>I think it would have been (is) possible for Paul to find commonality with the liberaltarian faction of libertarianism.  Granted, reduced government is the ideal for all libertarians, in the sense that we have a bloated and inefficient government now. Paul has commented numberous times that he respects the Obama Administration at least not playinhg political games and being honest about what it believes and proposes.  God help us all however if &quot;being honest&quot; ever becomes a reason for political union.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think it would have been (is) possible for Paul to find commonality with the liberaltarian faction of libertarianism.  Granted, reduced government is the ideal for all libertarians, in the sense that we have a bloated and inefficient government now. Paul has commented numberous times that he respects the Obama Administration at least not playinhg political games and being honest about what it believes and proposes.  God help us all however if &#8220;being honest&#8221; ever becomes a reason for political union.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>Comment on Taxes and Inequality in Greater Greater Washington by Rhayader</title>
		<link>http://timothyblee.com/2010/09/03/taxes-and-inequality-in-greater-greater-washington/comment-page-1/#comment-25109</link>
		<dc:creator>Rhayader</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Sep 2010 15:50:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timothyblee.com/?p=4051#comment-25109</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;there are thousands of individuals amassing wealth for the simple ability to do so or to live a particular lifestyle, not to follow hobbies that lead to some public good.&lt;/i&gt;

It&#039;s my impression that generally the ultra-rich don&#039;t simply stash all their money in a savings account.  Even rich people who aren&#039;t being actively philanthropic tend to do things like invest their money in business.  How many high-quality jobs are provided by Google these days, and how would that change if initial investors had to consider a very high marginal tax rate at the outset?

I&#039;m not insensitive to the arguments centering around &quot;inequality&quot;, but most of them seem to be short-sighted, overly simplistic &quot;nobody needs &lt;i&gt;that&lt;/i&gt; much money&quot; sorts of things.  It&#039;s not a zero-sum game; we all benefit when more people are able to vigorously participate in the economy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>there are thousands of individuals amassing wealth for the simple ability to do so or to live a particular lifestyle, not to follow hobbies that lead to some public good.</i></p>
<p>It&#8217;s my impression that generally the ultra-rich don&#8217;t simply stash all their money in a savings account.  Even rich people who aren&#8217;t being actively philanthropic tend to do things like invest their money in business.  How many high-quality jobs are provided by Google these days, and how would that change if initial investors had to consider a very high marginal tax rate at the outset?</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not insensitive to the arguments centering around &#8220;inequality&#8221;, but most of them seem to be short-sighted, overly simplistic &#8220;nobody needs <i>that</i> much money&#8221; sorts of things.  It&#8217;s not a zero-sum game; we all benefit when more people are able to vigorously participate in the economy.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>
